Openly sharing our personal mental health legends can help others know they’re not alone, specially when it’s a rarely-discussed or taboo subject. In today’s Not Crazy podcast, our guest Rachel Steinman, a podcaster, scribe and mental health advocate, discusses what it’s like to host a podcast where she shares her family’s mental health mysteries.

By talking openly about her family’s four suicides, mental illness, substance abuse, house liaisons, and more, Rachel is changing the narrative and replacing it with love, sorrow, and understanding.

( Transcript Available Below )

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Guest Information for’ Rachel Steinman- Value Mental Illness Stories’ Podcast Episode

Rachel Steinman is a Los Angeles native who had obtained her Masters in Education and has coached every elementary school grade, K-6. She’s even been the school librarian, a undertaking she adored. Rachel never set out to become a writer, a podcaster, or a mental health advocate but that is exactly what she proudly announces herself after discovering her beloved grandfather’s unfinished memoir 24 years after he rushed from his high rise. Rachel is sharing her family’s story to rid the disgrace and stigma that come with family mysteries and contemporaries of mental illness. By speaking frankly about her family’s narrations of four suicides, bipolar, recession, substance abuse, category circumstances, and more, she’s changing the narrative and supplanting it with love, compassion, and realise. She’s likewise chipping generational trauma so she doesn’t pass it onto her precious daughters and to arouse others to share their narrations openly.

Rachel is a lead presenter for NAMI speaking about pointing the silence to discuss mental health warning signs and offering resources and hope to middle and high schoolers as well as their parents. Rachel legions and produces the Dear Family Podcast celebrating our complicated homes and overcoming obstacles to find mental wellness. She lives in Studio City with her husband of 20 times, two beautiful, luminous, and musical youthful daughters, and her charming extricate puppy.

About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and talker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular record, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Statements, available from Amazon; indicated duplicates are also available directly from Gabe Howard . To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled dip her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international circulate; and guilds 12 duos of shoes online, collects the right one, and refers the other 11 back.

Computer Generated Transcript for’ Rachel Steinman- Value Mental Illness Stories’ Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer produced and therefore may contain corrects and grammar wrongdoings. Thank you.

Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.

Gabe: Welcome, everyone. You’re listening to the Not Crazy podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and I’m your emcee. And with me, as always, is Lisa Kiner. Lisa.

Lisa: Hey, everyone, today’s quote comes to us from Ryunosuke Satoro, and he said, individually, we are one drop. Together, we are an ocean.

Gabe: I like quotes like this for so many concludes, but there’s lots of quotes like this, right? You know, just like.

Lisa: It carries neatly into a poster.

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, we do have the kitten doing the hang in there thing.

Lisa: I affection that one. That’s my favorite.

Gabe: But isn’t it so overdone?

Lisa: Yeah, but it’s a kitten.

Gabe: But isn’t like the most powerful together thing exaggerate as well.

Lisa: Together, everyone achieves more.

Gabe: Together, everyone does achieve more, and what realizes me sad is not the glurge-y nature of the paraphrases or the opennes of it or merely the ughhhh of it. It’s the facts of the case that we don’t know this. Like, do “weve been” need a advertisement or a quote to tell us this. Is this not just like basic common sense? Like why don’t we have a quote that says, hey, if you accommodate your breather, you’ll die?

Lisa: Good point, I never actually thought about that, why do we have all these paraphrases and the answer is because, yes, parties do actually needed most.

Gabe: We likewise need a region for kittens hanging off stuff to get work.

Lisa: Good point. Otherwise, what positions are they genuinely are eligible for?

Gabe: They could just be our little cuddlies. I don’t

Lisa: Good idea.

Gabe: I don’t know why.

Lisa: Good idea. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Gabe: I think it’s a good notion. You know, Lisa, we get forward. We get forward, observes merely.

Lisa: And we recognize all of it.

Gabe: We do. Thank you, everybody. And one of the things that retains coming up is they ask us why our guests never share personal stories. And in fact, they referenced us saying, hey, we don’t have guests on to share personal storeys. We’d rather debate a topic or discuss something or share their point of view. And the issues to exclusively came up, so are you saying that personal tales are bad or are they stupid? Do you not like them? And first, I want to say unequivocally, if I couldn’t share my personal story, I would not have a podcast.

Lisa: Good point, you’re sharing your tale perpetually, it’s a job description.

Gabe: So there’s this little case of me that judges, hey, we spawned government decisions because I don’t want the competition. That is not, in fact why I realise government decisions. The actuality is personal narratives are extremely valuable. And I promote all of you to share. They’re just so well represented in the opening. But you know what’s not well represented in the infinite? The rulings of persons living with mental health issues and mental illness. I want to tell people what I miss. I don’t want to tell them my narration and hope that on the strength of my narration, they get it. You should not treat me like poop. Why not? Because I am a person and deserving of respect. Rather than you should not treat me like crap. Why not? Hang on. Let me tell you a narrative of when somebody discussed me like bullshit and it stirred me feel bad. We wanted to get into why we developed these opinions and how we want the world countries to follow us.

Lisa: So, you don’t want people to have to generalize what you entail, you want to just tell them.

Gabe: Oh, yeah, that’s a much faster way of saying that.

Lisa: Yeah, well, if it were up to me, it’d be a lot shorter show.

Gabe: So, listen, I decided that we would invite our good friend Rachel Steinman over to discuss the power of storytelling. Rachel is the host of the Dear Family podcast. She’s an extraordinary mental health advocate and she knows a lot about getting parties to share their stories and, of course, the value of that. So, Rachel, welcome to the show.

Lisa: So nice to have you here.

Rachel: Thank you. I’m thrilled to be here.

Gabe: As I already mentioned, you are the host of the Dear Family podcast, are you able briefly tell our listeners what that is?

Rachel: Sure, it is a podcast where we celebrate our complicated pedigrees. We find mental wellness, and I interview inspirational people who have overcome obstacles and we talk a lot about family members that have mental illness or parties that have mental illness and how they’ve overcome it or how they’re dealing with it. And we also talk about house secrets and the importance of just sharing narratives and having open dialog to purge stigma and chagrin and find love and pity and understanding.

Gabe: And, Rachel, that’s exactly why we wanted to have you on the demo. We’re all mental health advocates and in this case we’re all podcasters, which is kind of rare for us. It’s a distinct appearance, right, Lisa? We don’t have a lot of podcasters on our podcast.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh, so meta,

Gabe: I just wanted to set you up to use meta.

Lisa: I know. I have to use that at least once an episode.

Gabe: But, Rachel, we’re all mental health advocates, but we go about it very differently. Lisa and I conceive very strongly in beings with lived experience, sort of viewing the world and translating it for people who haven’t been there. And you believe very strongly in beings sharing their narrations and talking about what happened to them. And what I really like about your podcast is you really, genuinely dig late. It’s not fluff. It’s like you said, it’s no secrets. You dig into the family. There’s just a lot of debate about which one is right. And I kind of think it’s a stupid debate because I think they’re both title.

Rachel: Well, I clearly appreciate your pulpit and I can see why it’s so important, but I’m coming at it from a daughter whose mother has bipolar, whose grandparents both died by suicide, whose brother was addicted to crystal meth and culminated up homeless. And all these years of shame and no one actually talking about mental illness. I wanted to change that narrative. I wanted to openly talk about it because I don’t want to pass this on to my daughters. I don’t want that generational damage continuing. If we don’t talk about it, then that disgrace may continue or they may not feel comfy spoke out. This is something that all started when I started writing and I wrote an paper announced Grandpa and Anthony Bourdain, and it was after Anthony Bourdain took “peoples lives” by suicide. And I talked about my family and so many parties, private letters or publicly is out of the woodwork that I had known from “schools ” and on and said I had no idea that you had that genealogy. You obstructed it so well, I have something similar, or my mama or my brother or my husband or myself. And I recognise literally everyone has a family member dealing with the mental health issue or they themselves are dealing with it. And let’s talk about it.

Lisa: How solely do you feel that telling these tales of other kinfolks living with mental illness is helping people who do not live with mental illness?

Rachel: I think it’s hugely supportive. I have heard and I enjoy hearing this and I’m sure you hear this, that it really assistances others find pity for those that are suffering and maybe even find compassion for themselves. And that there’s no shame in asking for help or endeavouring care or talking about it. The more we talk about it, the more others talk about it. Right. Truth begets more truth. And my momma has bipolar. She was not diagnosed until her mid 60 s. And for all those times, I was ashamed of my momma. I was mortified by her strangeness and her filth and her fluctuation depressions. And now that I understand that it indeed is a mental health disorder and it changes her psyche, I have so much more compassion. And it’s made my momma and I so much closer.

Lisa: And then how does your mommy feel about that, how does she am thinking about you telling her story? Is she OK with that?

Rachel: Well, at first, she was not at first, actually, when I started writing papers, because that’s how it began. “Shes not” thrilled about it. She likewise examined things differently. And I fantasize at one point it propagandized her into a psychotic chapter, which did not facilitate. And then I felt guilty and there was clearly some antagonism because of course, here I am sharing her narrative publicly. Is it really fair for me to do that? Maybe not, to be honest. But then after my mom started see them and realizing that there was value in sharing the storey, she actually came to me and I’m so grateful. And she gave me her praise and she said, you’re doing what I care I could have done. If our storey can help one person, then “youve had” my bles. And I have to say what a beautiful knack.

Lisa: How long would you say that made between the time when you started and when your mama came around?

Rachel: Not too long, I would say about a year, and I demanded my mom to be my first podcast patron because my podcast’s called Dear Family, and she said absolutely not. I don’t like my spokesperson. I’m not interesting, all of these self-justifications. But I didn’t push it. And I objective up having my brother, but my momma terminated up being my fiftieth episode. And it was so special. She was so open. She’s come still further. So in a way, I foresee me having this platform realized her recognise the importance of ensuring that her voice and the importance of sharing her story.

Gabe: Thank you for is just so candid about telling your family’s fib, because this is something that I struggle with , not with their own families, because they’re OK with it. We apparently time have no scruples whatsoever. But the other beings around me, I am surprised that sometimes I’ll discover things on Facebook or I’ll get emails from someone that I knew way back when. And they’ll be like, I hear this on the podcast or I read this in a blog that you wrote and I knew you were talking about me and I don’t like it. Take it down. Now, I don’t mention people’s figures. I remove identifying material. But even though nobody could possibly figure out it was them from it, they knew it. And that was enough to really establish them anxious or hideous or annoyed. How do you get about that with other kinfolks? Because with their own families, hey, you’re a member of your family and you’ve made a decision. But what about like a friend or if you saw your mom interact with somebody else and you’re like, well, this is a story that’s worth assure what my mama did to the store clerk, for example. And I’m just literally fixing trash up because while you’re OK telling your mom’s story, are you OK telling the store clerk’s story and does it still have value? Is it really hey, these are paparazzi rulers? It happened in public.

Rachel: I want to answer your question, but I have a question firstly for you. Did you be brought to an end taking it down?

Gabe: No,

Rachel: OK, good.

Gabe: No, I never did. No, of course not. And thank you for asking that follow up question. I didn’t take it down because hey one, I obliged sure that they couldn’t be identified. And plus, this is just life. And three, they did it. But moving all of that aside, where does that dissolve? I represent, how much ret-conning of the past can I maybe do? How much editing and how much revisionist autobiography? I imply, if I can start reworking my past, I convey, I’m going to take aim at other things. Yeah, but I did feel bad. I guess that is the part that I want to say. It did attain “i m feeling” awkward. This idea that I was slogging up unhappiness for this person, I chalked it up to collateral impair. But how rational is that?

Rachel: This all began when I was 40 years old, and it was twenty four years after my grandfather had died by suicide. My grandfather was a big real estate mogul in Manhattan and he had to, you know, the outside, a perfect life. He had adolescents. He had grandkids. He had money in the bank. He was traveling. He had his physical state to still golf and play tennis. And hitherto he rushed out of his 14 th flooring balcony, actually, and died by suicide. I was 16 at the time. Twenty four years later, when I turned 40, his third partner passed away and I was tolerated back into this high rise and I ascertained his unfinished manuscript. “His fathers” died by suicide. Two brothers died by suicide and his wife. So that would be my maternal grandmother.

Rachel: My mom’s mom also died by suicide when my mom was just 14 and no one ever talked about it. I concluded this manuscript and it blew me apart, but it was incomplete. There was a lot that was never said, especially, the really important things. There was a lot of business acumen and all of that talked about. But what I was actually searching for was missing. It determined me on this travel to become his ghostwriter. And I started finishing his fib and I realise I had a story to tell. And I am still working on this double memoir that spans five generations. But as I was writing it, I’m digging all this grunge. I’m talking about my family like you cannot trust, right? Talk about reform and opening up a can of worms. I’m talking about my uncles, my mom, my father, my childhood, my life, things I did that wasn’t right. But if you want to be authentic, you have to tell the truth. And this is my truth. I objective up writing this essay. Well, my family on the East Coast got back to me and were very upset, very angry with me. How dare you talk about Grandpa or my papa that route? They is indeed very, very upset with me. Fortunately, Medium has it’s kind of like an RSS feed. You can change it and it revises. I was able to just say grandpa and get rid of the last name and that allayed them fairly. But that was an awful feeling, knowing how disturbed my family was with me. And more I thoroughly stay where you are that essay to this day. I imply, if it’s my truth, it’s my truth.

Lisa: So how does it turn out with your family now, are they still upset about that or have they likewise come around?

Rachel: So, I’m an open diary, so is my mom, some of the other family members are not. I likewise just recently my cousin was upset about how I mentioned her dad. And yet I know deep in my person, I can sleep at night because it’s true. And that’s just kind of what I go on. I don’t know if all of them have come around. Maybe it’s selfish of me to say, but I’m OK if they haven’t.

Gabe: How do you feel about the concept of it’s true to you? I think about how I interpret parties and, you are familiar with, Lisa and I have this constant struggle and this constant debate about how Lisa examines her parents and how I learn her mothers. Now, they’re not changing for me, for her. The change is, is I knew her mothers simply as young adults. And, you are familiar with, patently they don’t like me very much. I divorced their daughter and there was a lot of turmoil. But in Lisa’s lawsuit, they developed her. They birthed her. So when I say, well, you are familiar with, your parents are mean and she’s like , no, they’re mean to you. So if I wrote.

Lisa: They’re depict patriotism to me.

Gabe: Right. So if I wrote an essay called The True Story about Lisa’s Parents, I wouldn’t have to tell a single keep lying to offset them look bad. But current realities is, is it’s incomplete. Right? I’m only telling the things that they did to me that I don’t like. And I’m therefore and I’m making air mentions, chaps, speaking my truth. Do you think that beings understand that? Do you think that when people read an section or listen to a podcast by Rachel or by Gabe or by Lisa, they understand that that is that person’s take and that it’s certainly possible, and in fact likely, that somebody else has a completely different make?

Rachel: I cherish this question so much, because I think that that’s one of the things that writing learnt me that helped me in podcasting, is that you have to perform the person you’re interviewing a round persona. They can’t be flat. That when a person is spoke my commodity, they would find sympathy for my grandpa. It should demonstrate both inclinations. So, Gabe, if you’re writing an article about Lisa’s parents, you need to include that fraction about how immense they created their daughter. And otherwise, it’s not, again, that term genuine. It’s not authentic. So one of the things that writing genuinely cured me do is look at my grandparents, look at my mommy, look at my brother, and not just see them as, oh, they just did this and they suck. It cures me look at the past. It helps me see how they were affected. My grandfather, his pa was a narcissist. He learned that from him. His dad died by suicide. So looking at someone as a three dimensional character, acquire compassion for them, understanding its own history, understanding from where they came is such a better storey. Like some of the most wonderful novelists, there’s a rascal, and yet you can find sympathy for them.

Gabe: Darth Vader, you’re describing Darth Vader,

Rachel: Right.

Gabe: Right? I precisely this

Lisa: It was so sad when he died.

Gabe: He coerced people for three movies, but then

Lisa: Well.

Gabe: We verified him as this flawed reputation that got, I don’t know,

Lisa: Redemption.

Gabe: Just. Well, I imply, yeah, I guess it’s a redemption arc if we’re exerting fiction words. I like what you said there, Rachel. You know, the reality is this is an advanced life skill. People can be two things. I was very much indignant about the divorce. I was angry that I had caused more difficulties. And then, you are familiar with, here’s this. These other parties, they’re coming in and they’re basically molting light on their truth, which is that I was a bad partner, so I didn’t like that. Then in reality, you are familiar with, I learned that, hey, they can be two things. They is to be able to not be very nice to Gabe, which is, you are familiar with, they’re right, I predict. And

Lisa: Loyalty to me.

Gabe: Exactly. And of course, they can be remarkable parents. That gave me my best friend and the status of women who saved “peoples lives”. Well , now what do I do with that? And I are of the view that people struggle with this. And I think this is, to your point, Rachel, why these stories are so important to get out there , not because of our different versions of it, but because of the discussions that come up around them. See, right now, when it comes to, you know, bipolar disorder and mental illness, especially in families, it’s never been discussed. I actually think that it is a real bonus that the entire family is emailing you and calling you and telling you that you got it wrong, that you mess this up, that you’re making us look bad, because while that discussion may be aggressive or even irritable and hostile, it may well be the first discussion that any member of your family has had about these events in potentially their entire lives. And I are of the view that goes us to a good place.

Rachel: I thoroughly agree. The moment that happened, I concluded this might be the first time they’re all discussing this tragic event kind of with open eyes. What you said about the two sides, I actually think sometimes there’s three places. I think there’s your place, their surface and the truth.

Gabe: I like that, I like that.

Rachel: And the second thing that I will point out, I think that is a huge saving grace is forgiveness. By seeing the true picture and being able to step back, you are able to look at your family members’ past and experience forgiveness. And that is so healing make that weight off your shoulders. I was able to forgive my mommy first for things that she did because I was able to understand that was her bipolar. My mom was able to forgive me for separating and propagandizing away from her because that was my coping mechanism. Having these exchanges and being able to find that compassion leads to forgiveness. And I think if you can forgive, it’s your gift.

Lisa: We’ll be back in a minute after these messages.

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Lisa: And we’re back discussing the superpower of personal tales with podcaster Rachel Steinman.

Gabe: Let’s talk about the next step in the evolution of open discussions or let.

Lisa: I have a question.

Gabe: I haven’t asked mine yet.

Lisa: So do you feel that this has been beneficial to your family?

Rachel: Absolutely by me kind of opening up the can of worms and forcing some discussions, like I said, my mama and I have never been closer. I was ready to kick my mommy out of my life. She was just so inconsistent. And then formerly I started genuinely digging late, that helped me find that compassion and that grasp. It was almost like I put one over brand-new lenses and checked clearly for the first time. And I’m talking about going back multiple contemporaries to my grandparents and to even their parents who I never knew, and seeing how this generational trauma can get passed down, how if you don’t talk about it, it can fester. So, yes, I’m so glad that I went on this tour. And if nothing else comes of this, which I don’t believe is true, it saved our relationship.

Gabe: I like what you said about seeing things clearly, but I still am concerned about how clearly reform is. And I again, I think about my own life and I are more likely the most ridiculous pattern of this. Are you very well known the TV depict King of the Hill?

Rachel: Yes, I don’t watch it, but I’m familiar with it.

Gabe: Yeah, I cherished King of the Hill. I enjoyed that when it was on, I watched every bout when it was brand new. Now, when it was on, I was you are familiar with, I was young. I was I think it premiered when I was like 17 years old. And, you know, it pointed probably when I was around twenty three, twenty four. And, you are familiar with , now with COVID and we can’t do anything, I decided to pop open Hulu and literally watch it from scratch. Now, for those who don’t know, you are familiar with, King of the Hill is about this conservative Texas family. This guy, his reputation is Hank Hill. He sells propane and propane supplements. And he’s this real quiet person who likes football. And his son, who’s 12, is named Bobby Hill. Now, Bobby is the exact opposite and he talks a mile a minute. He’s a chubby minor. He dislikes athletics. And he’s just a strange, funny little kid. And when I watch it the first time, I very much related to Bobby Hill. Right. He’s just trying to be who he is and do his room in the world and live his best life. I’m 43 years old now and I watch the exact same show again.

Gabe: It didn’t deepen one iota. And I’m watching it. And I simply perfectly related to Hank Hill. You know, here’s this guy who’s trying to live his best life. He has a kid. He’s got this idea in his head of what being a father is. And he doesn’t know how to connect to his son, who’s the exact opposite as him. And he’s just urgently doing his best. And good-for-nothing seems to be working. It’s the exact same show, Rachel. They didn’t change anything. The only thing that deepened is I got twenty years older. I think this is why honestly discussing our legends and talking about them and keeping them in, whether it’s the public consciousness or the family consciousness, is so important because as Lisa and I have discussed a million times, our mothers were foolish as diddly-shit when we were kids. And then the time we turned about 35, we recognized they only geniuses, that good-for-nothing changed

Lisa: So what you’re saying is then part of the benefit is that you’re able to reinterpret it with new eyes at a later time? I’m not quite sure what you’re saying, Gabe.

Gabe: I remember the benefit is that age requires perspective. I is not possible to consider things the space that my parents assured things because I was not under the pressures that they were under the reasons that my mothers induced, government decisions they did when they were raising me is because, well, they had other children to think about. They had a mortgage, they had errands, they had other responsibilities. Gabe had no understanding of that. I time thought that my daddy are of the view that I was weird and didn’t want to connect with me. And that’s why I liked the Bobby. Well, formerly I became older and I “ve had my” own conflicts with overseeing undertaking and compiling friends and connecting to the children in my life, I realized that, oh, hey, it’s not that my father thought that I was a weird little girl that he didn’t like. It’s that my papa just had no idea how to connect with me either. And that’s what I read in Hank Hill. We often talk about things right when they happen because it’s fresh and the crisis is right there. Can you believe mom did this? Can you believe Gabe said that? Can you believe this bad thing happened? And then we take the whole thing and we ball it up and whatever age and plaza we were in the world is the only way we ever “ve been thinking about” it for the rest of our lives. So, however, Rachel met her grandfather’s death at 16, becomes how she sees her grandfather’s death for the rest of her life. But by discussing it, by seeing that manuscript, by talking to other family members, you start to realize that there were things that 16 year old-fashioned Rachel didn’t know. Now, again, I’m speaking a great deal for Rachel all of a sudden. What are your thoughts on that?

Rachel: So I interviewed the status of women appointed Dani Shapiro, she is a New York Times best seller and she’s incredible and she’s a memoirist, which it stood with me. She talked about how when you write about trauma, you can’t be talking about it right after it happens. The only parties that can do that really are poets. You need occasion and cavity to look at things. And I definitely agree with that because if I had just thought about my grandfather the style I did when I was 16 and didn’t understand why mortal would take their life, when I thought they had everything, then I would still be stuck in that place of, in a manner that is, feeling like he was selfish. And now, of course, I don’t think of that at all. I understand how somebody could make their life, that there’s so much pain that you wake up every morning, you are interested in, what’s the point? And I never could have understood that at that age. Now, again, talking about how we deepen with senility and how there’s that insight as we grow old. I recollect looking at my mothers, extremely, and thinking like they’re[ beep ]. Sorry. That they’re moronics.

Rachel: That they’re schmucks because they don’t, they don’t know. And I never want to be anything like them. And now I have teenage daughters and they will say things to me that I exactly laugh at. Like you don’t know or you’ll never understand or things like that. And I is a well-known fact that in 15, 20 years, they’re going to change the room they look at things. But yes, there is something really amazing about looking at things after having more know-how. And I have to say being a parent surely varies things. I’ve talked about this. I was a kindergarten teacher straight out of college who used to judge mothers since they are didn’t have time to read to their teenagers, or they would bribe their adolescent with candy. And I retain picturing, I will never do that. And then cut to I have my own kids. And so and then I is guilty for judging them. But I think that, yes, the importance of storytelling is to see different looks from different senilities, too to talk about it. So, for example, my mom now has a label. We know she’s bipolar. Well, my girls know she’s bipolar. She’ll grow up looking at things differently than she would have had we not been able to talk so openly about it.

Lisa: Ok. Uhm,

Gabe: Hold up, let me say thank you real quick.

Gabe: Thank you so much better, Rachel, I genuinely appreciate that.

Rachel: Of course.

Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that’s what you were going to do, OK? I thought you were going to say thank you for being here. I pictured, what are you do that when I have a question. But I understand now, never mind.

Gabe: Rachel, I affection so much that you don’t have a co-host like that, that’s how you gave that up. You got to

Lisa: See how much her life is lacking. Poor thing, I feel so sad for you.

Gabe: No, her life is great. I’m just teasing, Lisa

Rachel: Although, you guys definitely seem to have fun together, and I desire that, it’s impressive.

Gabe: I owe her a life debt, like I’m

Lisa: Like Chewbacca,

Gabe: I keep trying to get away from her, but I’m not allowed. I’m

Rachel: She attracts you back in.

Gabe: I make, that place is kind of true.

Lisa: I try.

Gabe: In a method. We’re joking, right? But as you know, Lisa and I, we are divorced and that is unusual. They’re like, well, if you’re still friends and you like one another, why couldn’t you be married? As if as if

Lisa: We get that a lot.

Gabe: Marriage and rapport is are identical things. But in a way, Lisa knows my whole story with mental illness. That determines her extraordinarily precious. I think it’s why people want to stay connected to their family so much, because your family knows like your entire childhood, like that’s a lot of bonding. I I’m not trying to say that Lisa and I are only friends because she saved “peoples lives”. But I suppose Lisa and I might simply be friends because she saved my life. That’s like an incredible thing to is attached to beings. It’s hard to break. I convey, she also likes Star Wars and that’s pretty bad ass. And we like the same restaurants. That’s

Lisa: No, we don’t,

Gabe: That’s true. We hate it.

Gabe: Us. Trying to pick a eatery is

Lisa: No, we just go there because you’re too picky,

Gabe: You will merely eat at, like these weird eateries that even Yelp won’t review.

Lisa: All everything you pick is so boring.

Gabe: And yet popular.

Lisa: Any who

Rachel: I cherish it, I desire it.

Lisa: Question for, a question for Rachel, question for the person or persons here. So you’ve talked about the importance of sharing your floor publicly on a on a large scale, on a podcast or online or in an commodity. What about do you feel there’s any value in maybe something on a smaller scale, like sharing with your coworkers or talking to the person standing next to you at McDonald’s?

Rachel: Absolutely, I entail, that’s probably the strongest right face to face, one on one, that’s like a true connection. And sharing your tale by being prone, by opening up yourself, it lets other beings make their sentries down and open up to you. I say this all the time, but by showing how people can overcome obstacles, like I cherish spotlighting people that have stumbled real low-pitched qualities whether they were homeless or addicted to crack or whatever it is, and how they were able to ask for help, which feels weak but is actually the strongest, bravest thing you can do and then turn their life around. It’s so inspirational and all you need to hear is one story that can move you into action. So, yes, surely. I think that’s so potent that one on one connection.

Gabe: Lisa, I really liked your question and Rachel, I did like your answer. I think that sometimes beings be suggested that things simply work on a splendid proportion. You know, if you can’t have a podcast like Rachel or a podcast like Gabe and Lisa or if you can’t have a huge following in a newspaper or. But that’s like so sad, right? I imply, could you imagine if Lisa would have seen something wrong with Gabe and instead of telling me her fib or discussing with me, she would have just let it go and written a blog like that that wouldn’t have found me where I was. I wasn’t searching out this information. So in that way, Lisa is one on one conversation was infinitely more valuable than even the most popular podcast, because I wouldn’t have searched for it. I wouldn’t have read it. I wouldn’t have listened connect it. I thought that was for other parties and not for me. And Lisa is one on one conversation with me connected to me where I was. I sincerely think in this age of, you know, how many likes do “were having”, how many admirers, how many smashes parties forget that one on one conversations have just a tremendous amount of value, especially to the person that you’re having it with.

Rachel: You talking about the connecting one on one, it just made me think of a story about my husband, who is a entrepreneur, and he’s been in the business world-wide since college and has had some success. And I’m just very proud of him. And someone asked about who his instructor was and who he appeared up to. And I would have come up with 10 other parties and he mentioned his mom’s friend, this human reputation Myron, who he’s had multiple conversations with softly. And it certainly kind of blew me apart that that this one person made these ties and it was those the separate phone calls. And it just goes to show how contacting out and having those conferences one on one is so powerful. And I sometimes get private contents from people. And I have to say, seem, I am not a therapist. I just have lived experience, but by me connecting one on one with them privately and representing them definitely sounds like I do be concerned about them and that they are important and that they can find help has been so impactful for me.

Gabe: My sincere question is it really seems like every single person who has a mental illness or knows individual with a mental illness immediately thinks that they need to start a podcast, write a memoir or a blog. And I don’t want to stop anybody from following their dreams or putting their intelligence out there. I’m just wondering if some of those people are doing it out of obligation or because they think that’s the only way and are missing out on other modes for them to share. One of the samples that comes to mind is, is somebody hosting a podcast right now that would much rather guide a subsistence radical. And instead of producing the reinforce group, they believe that they have to reach more beings. And therefore, even though they’d be an incredible aid radical facilitator, they’re sitting behind a microphone and editing software sad because after all, they’re attain more people.

Rachel: There’s probably countless podcasts dealing with mental wellness, I will say the fact that Lady Gaga and it’s every celebrity now is talking about their anxiety or exactly look at Tic Tok and the boys. I want, it’s almost like

Gabe: It’s very popular,

Rachel: Cool to talk about

Gabe: Yeah.

Rachel: That, what you’re dealing with and struggling with, which, by the way, is fantastic that our minors are talking about it. But is everybody need to be have a podcast? No, probably not. And that was partly why I wanted to make sure that my stage spotlit other people’s floors, as it is important to get narrations out there. But, yes, I totally agree with you. I think that there are other platforms that people can share their stories without having to start a podcast. And yeah, utterly. We is necessary in order more support groups and we do need more probably like therapists, especially people of color. We need more cultural sensitivity course. And I is contributing to that for sure if you are considering getting in the field and wanting to help.

Lisa: Well, Rachel, thank you so much for being here today, where can our listeners find you

Rachel: So my website is WriteNowRachel.com, that’s write, with a W and I am on all the social media programmes and my podcast is on all the podcasting platforms. Simply investigation Dear Family.

Gabe: It’s an frightening podcast I highly recommend it, and I hope you will check it out on your favorite podcast player or brain over to WriteNowRachel.com. And remember it’s write. Like you’re writing.

Rachel: Exactly, and I’m so excited because I’m having Gabe as a patron on my podcast coming up very soon, and we’re going to talk all about him and his family.

Gabe: Yes,

Rachel: Yes.

Gabe: Turnabout is always fair play. Rachel, thank you so much for being here and listeners, stay

Lisa: Yes, thank you.

Gabe: Tuned, because now we’re going to talk behind Rachel’s back.

Rachel: Awesome, I can’t wait to hear it, this later.

Gabe: Of track, again, you can always tune in.

Lisa: Again,

Gabe: In. I don’t. It’s like our favorite joke. You know, we’re going to talk about your behind your back. It’s

Lisa: It’s not our favorite joke.

Gabe: It’s my favorite joke.

Lisa: Why is Rachel interviewing you on the evidence and not me?

Gabe: Well,

Lisa: Aren’t we a container slew?

Gabe: No , no , no, we’re divorced.

Lisa: Fair.

Gabe: The pack deal part of the Gabe and Lisa relationship has long since ceased by rule of law. Could you imagine this poor woman? Like she once expended a couple of hours in the studio with us to do this interview, and then we

Lisa: She did.

Gabe: Show up again on her indicate? For, for real?

Lisa: Ok, there’s a quality. She was very patient with us,

Gabe: Do we scorn parties

Lisa: Very good boast,

Gabe: That much?

Lisa: Not her specifically

Gabe: I’m the Star.

Lisa: You are. You’re the Star.

Gabe: Hey, Lisa, we went back and forth a lot when we were designing our show about the personal fibs, and I know that I felt a bit specious not causing the personal stories on it, because that’s literally my profession. I share my story for a living. It’s, that’s my keynote address. It’s literally called This Bipolar Life. And it’s about my life living with bipolar disorder. So I felt a skosh hypocritical. But at the same time, we ogled around there are still precisely wasn’t any shows where people were just tackling life or the subject matter through the lens of people living with mental illness. I simply want beings with mental health issues and mental illness to tell people what they want, advocate for it and fight for it and not be ambiguous. I think that has just as much value as sharing our stories.

Lisa: Of trend it does, but why does it have to be one or the other? The entire moment is we are able to have two comings to this problem.

Gabe: This is the most fascinating thing that we deal with on this testify, where people hear that you advocate for one thing and they immediately believe that you are against something else, could you imagine this playing out in the real world? Gabe, what do you want for dinner? Pizza. Oh, you detest spaghetti? You anti-spaghetti? You rallying against spaghetti? No, I. I just wanted pizza. I’m not hold any thought to these other things , nor am I trying to push them down or not pay attention to them. And when appropriate, I like spaghetti. I like spaghetti a lot.

Lisa: You precisely want to make clear that really because this is not something we’re concentrates on here; we don’t have anything against it and we are supportive others focusing upon it.

Gabe: Yeah, we too don’t talk about Marvel movies, which I’m obsessed with, but it’s not the space for it.

Lisa: Gabe, your point is that promoting one idea or one coming does not mean that you’re bashing another one.

Gabe: That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. We coulda saved the whole hour.

Lisa: Yeah,

Gabe: This indicate could have been 10 minutes.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: Hey, you’re listening to the Not Crazy podcast. This is Gabe. I’m here with Lisa. Lisa generates a quotation. Hey, really because we promote one hypothesi does not mean we’re bash another. There’s office for several pathways to recovery. We need to be open to things. Yay! All claim. Hey, everybody, thank you for listening to The Psych Central Podcast. Shit.

Lisa: That would be a very odd show for us to have.

Gabe: Yeah,

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: This is what happens when your legion more than one substantiate, but sincerely, sincerely, all I want people to know is that personal floors have incredible value, as Rachael launched better than we ever could. The ability of coming in touch with your past, of sharing it with like-minded beings, of, she didn’t use these precise statements, but of find your tribe, of making amends with family members. Like this is what frankly discussing our legends can do. And it was sad, Lisa, when we got the emails where people were saying, oh, so you’re saying that these legends have no advocacy benefit or that these storeys are not a good doctrine, that you don’t encourage people to promote their stories? I was very bummed that people get that message. The reality, Lisa, is we need them both. Remember when I vouched in front of the General Assembly and

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Gabe: Now are all these senators, and if I commit them a information, their sees glossed over, if I told them about something bad that happened to me because of these constitutions or lack of resources, then all of a sudden, their gazes increased like, oh, my, how could this happen to a person? And you and I learned very quickly that the wedding of information and personal legend, the personal story feet it, the facts of the case causes them an entering moment of something to fix. So I am mesmerized by this idea that the two things would ever be at odds given how intrinsically connected in my head they are. Reality are valued, saying what we want is valuable, preaching for ourselves is valuable. But the reason we do it is always are attached to, frankly, something bad, painful, or sickening that happened to us in the past that we want to ensure doesn’t happen to anybody else ever again. And I think that’s worth discussing.

Lisa: Well, the personal is political.

Gabe: Exactly, I merely don’t think it’s worth discussing on the substantiate , not in a bad way.

Lisa:[ Laughter]

Gabe: Thank you, everybody, for listening to this week’s Not Crazy podcast. Wherever you downloaded the depict, delight subscribe. Also proportion it, grade it, inspect it use actual letters to form oaths to tell people why they should listen as well. I am Gabe Howard. I am the author of Mental Illness Is an Asshole and Other Watchings. You can, of course, get it on Amazon, but if you go to gabehoward.com right now and buy the book, I will sign it and I will give you a entire cluster of Not Crazy podcast stickers absolutely free. Don’t believe me? Lisa will support me to it.

Lisa: Lisa will actually be mailing the books, so no worries, there’ll be stickers in there.

Gabe: Stick around for the outtake at the end of the ascribes, and we’ll see you next Tuesday.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, see PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/ NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person? Not Crazy tours well. Have us record an episode live at your next incident. E-mail show @psychcentral. com for details.

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